Today we talk with custom residential architect David Andreozzi AIA/CRAN about his business insights from starting and running a residential practice.

Show Notes

• Mark your calendars for Septermber 18-20, 2014 for the Architecture of Influence Symposium at Charleston, South Carolina.
• Vist the CRAN website at AIA CRAN for news about upcoming symposiums, conferences, events, and projects.
• Preorder CRAN's first book Houses for All Regions: CRAN Residential Collection
• Subscribe to CRAN's newsletter The CRANicle and their YouTube channel CRAN TV

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Interview Transcript and Members Only Resources:

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Enoch: Hello and welcome back, Architect Nation. This is Enoch Bartlett Sears. The Business of Architecture show is the show where we talk about how to run a great business – a business that’s not only fun, but also profitable – the kind of business that we all dreamed about having if we thought about having our own business when we were in architecture school.

Today’s episode is sponsored by the Business of Architecture Conference coming to the Internet near you in early October where there will be all the information you ever wanted to know about, starting a firm, running a profitable practice, and having success as an architect doing the kind of projects you want to work on.

Today, we have, once again, joining us David Andreozzi, architect out of Rhode Island who specializes in custom residential architecture, high-end luxury homes.

Today, David is going to take the veil off the behind the scenes of what happens at Andreozzi Architects. So, we look forward to talking to him about how he’s been able to get the work he does, and he’s view of architecture, and everything else in between.

So, David, welcome back to the show.

David: Thank you very much, Enoch.

Enoch: Yeah, it’s good to have you. So, David, tell us a little bit about your practice. If you could take me back to the beginning, like, how did you start your practice?

David: Well, it’s interesting. Basically, it starts with Mike Brady of the Brady Bunch. So, I watched the Brady Bunch and I said, “Why does he get to build models for a living – models of houses?”

At the time, my father was a contractor, so I always said, “You know what…” I think I was starting to get involved with contracting. When I say “involved with contracting,” I was dragging crap to the dumpster and filling up the dumpster.

I worked my way up through the construction site. I learned how to use a hammer. I learned how to do framing. I learned how to do plastering. Then, eventually, I ended up bidding projects. This is during the summer, as I was going through school. I learned how to bid projects and got really involved to the point where when I was in RISDI, when I was in the School of Design, I was actually taking furniture making.

So, I guess, the passion for building. I love building, but I love to do it in the, sort of, three dimensional architecture end. I got hooked on and I would say in seventh or eighth grade, very, very early, in mechanical drawing.

What has actually become, sort of, the ethos of what I think makes our firm a little bit different is that, I think, when we show up at a job site, I, really and truly, I look at everybody as the same. I’m not some college educated, snobby, artisan that knows better than you. I’m really and truly just one of the equal players of the entire team.

Enoch: So, you went to Rhode Island School of Design. You had this background in building. Tell me about how you went from graduating from school and getting your architecture degree. Did you always want to have your own firm?

David: Yes. So, what happened was my first job out of RISDI was working for Rob Reno. Rob Reno had just left Shope Reno Wharton and had started an office outside of [Inaudible 00:03:57] New Hampshire.

So, I was there for about six months, or nine months, and things have slowed a little bit. He was awesome. He was like, “Listen, things have slowed a little bit, and I don’t mind keeping you on, but…” he said, “but if I keep you on, I want you to say.” He said, “Or I can recommend you go someplace else.”

I said, “Well, can you recommend me to go to Shope Reno Wharton?” his original firm. That brought me to Greenwich, Connecticut. The connection there was obviously- well, not obviously. My heart and soul is Rhode Island, the New England ethos, the shingle style.

So, Shope Reno Wharton was, at the time, one of the new upcoming architects and one of the top shingle-style architects in the country. I was right there, at the hot bed, immediately designing houses, the biggest most wonderful houses you can imagine.

That really was the beginning. Then, from that point on, I went through my process of educating and going through… I almost looked at it as graduate school. The interesting about that is that it’s such a hotbed of talent. I mean, right around me in my drafting room was what would be Joeb Moore one of the more famous architects right now in Greenwich, Connecticut, and Mike Imber, one of the most celebrated architects in Texas and nationally. I mean, the amount of people that left that firm at that point when I was there – I could go on – is just amazing.

So, I really looked at it as being in one of the coolest graduate schools in the country. I mean, I’m in debt to both Bernard Wharton, and Allan Shope, and Robert Reno before for setting me up with that education. From that point on, I just couldn’t wait for the moment where I was going to start my practice because I had a little bit of supply because my parents were in the business. The minute I was eligible to take the test, I was back home in Rhode Island and with the first commission, and that was twenty-six years ago.

Enoch: So, to help you jump start the practice, was it the fact that your family had projects that you could design?

David: No. It actually was one single project. It was a family friend, and it came actually a little bit earlier than I was planning on starting the practice. He basically said I’m ready to design my first house.

So, I came back just a little bit earlier than I planned. That actually provided the impetus… I was published locally pretty early, and from that point just, sort of, caught and built over time.

Enoch: Okay, great. So, you had that first commission. Do you remember those early days? How difficult was it to continue that up?

David: You know, I don’t remember. I remember it’s more economic. It’s more cyclical with the economy and it didn’t matter how successful I’ve been through the years. I mean, the last three or four years have been, sort of, on a slow curve, and that’s starting to pick up again, but if you look back, the highs and the lows have less to do with…

I’m sure with some firms if you’re nationally published and you start getting architectural digests, this, that and the other thing, the phones starts ringing bigger and bigger. In my case, we’re mostly regional. I’ve done work outside of the region, but mostly regional. I mean, I find that I’m very impacted by the economy as whether things are good and bad. Obviously, things have not been great lately.

Enoch: Yeah. How do people generally find you, David?

David: Well, it’s interesting. Some people are very, very surprised when I tell the story. I’ve told it for years.

I’m still slightly embarrassed about our third temporary website that we have up because it’s almost impossible to figure out. You have to figure out how to look at the images.

The three websites that we’ve created since the Internet has started have actually generated, I would say, between 65% and 70% of my major projects and commissions over the years – a huge amount. So, while I get local work, small-medium sized, I can’t tell you how many big projects have come by people actually doing a search on a local high-end architect, residential architect, shingle-style architect, Rhode Island, New England, using the key words, narrowing down their search.

I don’t go to the top of the list or anything like that, but narrowing me down to the top twenty or so. From that point, I think the work speaks for itself. They end up getting drawn in to the site, and finding out more about me, getting drawn over to my Facebook page, finding more about, sort of, my philosophy, then the telephone rings. When the phone rings, usually, they’re pretty hot and they’ve already bought in to using me.

I think it’s pretty interesting because when we first set up the Internet, I thought it was a joke. Not a joke, but I thought it was like the Yellow Pages – people were going to look at it and say, “I’ve never…”

I’ve been in business, again, twenty-six years. I’ve never gotten a single job from the Yellow Pages because there’s an aspect of our job that’s art and it’s based on recommendations. You’d never buy a piece of art by looking at the Yellow Pages. So, it was surprising, it was dumbfounding to us that, all of a sudden, people were coming to us and be like really wanting to use us.

Our feeling was this unusual, at least for the type of architecture that I do, this unusual ability for a client sitting in their boxer shorts at home with them and their wife, maybe they both have boxer shorts on, sitting there, searching for architects, going, “Hey, let’s look at his work,” “Hey, I like that,” “And I like that.”

They’re not having the architect sitting there selling to them like, “Oh, you have to use me,” and “That guy is an idiot,” and “This guy is incompetent.” This way they’re basically going through the website and buying in to me without me being a sales person. So, it was this unusual paradox, I’ll be honest with you.

Enoch: So, that’s an interesting analogy. Almost like having a virtual sales person to, kind of, sell your practice without you having to overtly sell yourself.

David: Well, your pictures they tell a lot about you, it’s the work that you show.
I can talk for hours about all the things we’ve done wrong on the website. All of the work on my website now is the finest houses that I’ve done over the last twenty-six years, the biggest, finest houses. Well, the reality is, like, 75% of my work is like $500,000 and less. So, what am I doing to nurture that? I’ve been basically shunning them away.

We’re going through this midlife crisis together. My associate David Rizzolo, and my wife Cheryl who’s been involved on an administrative partnership with us, the three of us for years, and we’re looking at this saying, “You know, this has been successful for twenty-six years, but what do we do different for the next twenty-six years?” I think that part of our midlife crisis is, I think, we’re portraying only one message. It has to be a much broader message to encapsulate other types of work other than just these, sort of, high-end, big projects that we’ve done in the past.

Enoch: David, how important do you think it is for architects to specialize on a particular form, or type, or whatever kind of specialty it is of architecture?

David: That’s a difficult question to answer because you can answer it by just saying “an architect,” and you can say it another way and saying “architectural firm.” So, as an architectural firm with five practitioners, it’s going to be extremely diverse. One person can specialize in restaurants, the other person can specialize in modern, contemporary modern homes, and the other person can specialize in traditional homes, and you’re creating diversity.

I think it’s very rare that you would get somebody at the very, very top of their field that is going to specialize in very different types of archetypes and be really an A+ at all the different archetypes. I mean, the fact that I spent twenty-six years doing architecture and I would say 95% of my work is custom residential architecture, you would think that I have a higher aptitude to do a high quality architecture based on the products I know, the design I’m familiar with, the past designers I know, the conferences I’ve taken specializing in that thing compared to somebody who walked in tomorrow and said, “I would like you to do a train depot,” and you’d say, “Okay. Thank you very much,” and you’d be excited about it. You certainly couldn’t say that you have equal qualifications.

I’ve heard the argument, “We’ll, you know, an architect’s responsibility is to go out there and learn the responsibilities, what the codes are, and how it works.” Yeah, I agree with that, but that doesn’t mean that you’re going to design it as good as somebody that’s been designing train depots for twenty-six years.

So, I think that specializing is worth it to me, if I could just say that

Enoch: Okay. The people that end up using you, what is it that you think has been, sort of, your secret sauce about being able to get the clients that you’ve been able to land?

David: Well, much of these were taught, again, through from Shope Reno Wharton – Rob Reno with the working drawings, and Shope Reno Wharton with the process. Our working drawings for an average, let’s say, 6,000 sq. ft. house are 90 to 110 pages. They’re the most massive set of drawings you’ve ever seen. Every detail, we’re involved with everything and anything except for color, and fabric, and carpeting.

What we do there is we’ve made a decision, after we’ve been in practice for about ten years, that we won’t take a job unless we agree and approve the interior decorator, and we agree and approve the landscape architect. The reason for that isn’t so we can control them, it’s so they can be an equal part of the process. They can be an equal team member and we’re not fighting with each other.

Honestly, the way that we do it is I try and show my plans to the decorator and landscape architect before I show it to the owner. I expect them to do the same to me, so that we’re basically designing it together as a team in the background.

So, the combination of these extensive set of working drawings, an unbelievably anal-retentive documentation of meeting notes, and following the process of the contracts, and following through the administration of the job, in concert with organizing the teams, and the teams working together, I think it creates something for the home owner that I know is not the majority of architects that are working out there. I know there is a minority that are doing it and that’s the way it should be done.

Enoch: David, you mentioned that, as part of your stipulation, you require to have input on the landscape design and the interior designers. When do you broach that subject?

David: I would say that as soon as the schematic design is done of the house. At that point, I will bring the landscape architect, interviewed and approved by the client, hired, and we work together. As I’m beginning the very early stages of DD, they are beginning the schematic design on that.

We spend a lot of time sitting down and talking about my original [Inaudible]. That doesn’t mean that they have to follow my literal sketch. I will draw literal sketches of a driveway and a patio, and I’ll do that because that’s how I think about spaces. I think about spaces inside the house and I think about the spaces inside the house relating to the outside spaces.
So, I’m drawing them at the same time, but I’ll give it to the landscape architect and say, “Okay, this is my [Inaudible]. This is what I, kind of, want. Now, you work with it.” So, things come back many times looking very different but the essence of the [Inaudible] stays the same – the decorating stays a little bit further.

I’d say I get about halfway through DD and start working drawings, and then I’ll bring the decorator in and we’ll start to talk about furniture plans, and lighting, and all of the integral things that are involved specially with the high-end custom homes. People want them to be truly integrated from technology to design.

So, it’s important to have the decorator, literally, almost like they’re in your office. I mean, I tease sometimes about doing decorating in the office, but I don’t think I ever will because I just love working with all the different, great decorators and designers.

Enoch: Have you ever had the situation where a client wants to bring in a decorator that isn’t really a fit for the team?

David: Yes. I had a situation that imploded on me early on in my career. I’ve designed an early house that become published and won three awards locally. I was asked to renovate that house when the person remarried about eight years later.

The client did an amazing thing actually. The client had met their new wife who had their own designer who was a spatial designer. She wasn’t an architect. She was a kitchen designer that was, kind of, doing architecture, but she had done a very big project for this person.

So, basically, the clients –I just adore them – they did an amazing thing when they said, “We’re going to hire both of you. David is going to construct the outside shell and the designer was actually going to sort of work on the inside.” I felt obligated because they really gave me such significant projects starting out in business and I’m still in debt to them that I would do this.

Basically, the process imploded. It was impossible that it could have worked. It fell apart. At that point, I lost somebody in my office who left. This is the tension that was in my office. She literally left with hives all over her. It was just a very disturbing experience. I decided, at that point, that in all of our future projects I have to be a team player with everybody.

So, it’s difficult to say it, but in a way, I think it’s comforting for the client to know, “Okay, okay. You can meet my decorator. I think you’ll like her.” I meet many decorators and I add many landscape architects, but you can tell when you get somebody that’s going to be fighting over whether who’s going to sell the sconce to the owner. I don’t sell sconces to the owner, so why are you like…? We need to get beyond that. We need to create this big, large design team where everybody is working for the owner.

So, anyway, it was one of the best decisions that I ever made.

Enoch: David, you are a business owner. If there’s anything that comes close, what currently keeps you up at night in terms of being a business owner?

David: It’s funny because… I mentioned earlier this “midlife crisis” that we’re going through – and I say that in the nicest sense. I think part of it is: What are we doing right? What are we doing wrong? Am I doing the right thing? We’re spending my money on advertising, how I’m responding to clients, and lost opportunities of networking in the past. So, I think those are the things that you live with and you learn.

It goes back to being involved nationally with the AIA, getting involved with CRAN, getting involved with going to symposiums because you learn, and you live, and you get ideas on how to deal with all these things. And I get nervous. I get nervous about, “Okay. What can I change immediately?” or, “What can we change…?” It’s scary to change and to have the guts to make a change.

One of the things that we’re thinking we’re going to do over the next year is set up another office in Boston. So, it’s only about an hour away, but a lot of my work is coming from Boston, and it’s going to make so much sense. I’ve been afraid for fifteen years to do it, you know, you’ve got kids going – first, they were going to private school, and then they’re going through college, so now they’re off doing their own thing.

So, you’re saying to yourself, there’s no reason now to be scared. I mean, we’re talking financially. You need to be aggressive, and be a big boy here, and you need to do it. So, those are the sorts of things. It’s having the guts to make those decisions.

Enoch: Yeah. What are the primary fears? I mean, we’re all human. We all have these fears. But, when you’re considering going in to this new marketplace in Boston, what are the deep fears that you’re having or just the insecurities, if you don’t mind sharing that with us?

David: That’s an interesting discussion for everybody to listen to. I know what I have and I know what I don’t have. So, what I have is I’m already doing work outside, in that area, and I believe that the type of work that I do I’m in the minority of designers architects that do that type of work. So, that is what I know is fine. I know that I have relationships with landscape architects and designers, and I know people around the Boston areas, so that’s fine.

People we have two-way relationships, right? I recommend a landscape architect and they recommend me, so there’s a dynamic back and forth. It’s the same with the interior designer. I’m in need of a new designer and I like their work, and they like my work, and we begin this, sort of, these new synergies.

What I don’t have is any dynamic with real estate agents. I can’t give a real estate agent anything. All they can do is give something to me. I do believe that to create a long term… If I was moving my entire office there – which I’m not, which would be much more risk. I’m talking about starting out and having a satellite so it’s closer to my clients in that area. I think that would be more risky because I don’t know how you would make those connections because they already know ten architects and they recommend three.

So, you’re going knock on a door, and do your sales routine, and they’re going to recommend you. It’s not going to work that way. That is a true dynamic that I don’t know how an architect or even a contractor breaks through that because the contractor is in the same situation as well.

Enoch: David, you mentioned that you’re doing advertising right now?

David: Well, we’ve gone on and off and advertised in the past. We put our advertising money in different ways. We might do it locally. We might do money on photography. So, we’re pushing money in different ways.

I wish I had the other 75% of the projects that I didn’t photograph over the years. I mean, again, you have to just choose. It’s becoming a little bit easier now to go out and take, like, general shots, but, listen, nothing’s going to beat a professional photographer’s shots – period, the end. But, in this case, we’ll choose vehicles, either magazines or guides, that we think are aggressive or are things that we want to experiment with for a year or two and we’ll see how it goes.

Enoch: So, when you say “guides or magazines” are you talking about paid ads in those particular publications?

David: Yeah. My most recent commitment is to Boston Design Guide. So, basically, they have an online presence, but they really have this hardcopy book that has the top architects in all of Boston and it’s distributed throughout the Boston area. Again, that’s part of my process in, sort of, reintroducing myself to the Boston area. I have the Boston projects. So, you focus on those projects and you begin to nurture that business.

Enoch: In terms of advertising dollars, what lessons have you learned about that kind of overt marketing in terms of mistakes maybe or things that you find that work? What’s your perspective on spending money on that?

David: I’m pretty convinced that I’ve not received a job from advertising. I think it’s about building your brand. Well, if I think about it, I’ve advertised in spurts in various different places, but what I’ve also done, I’ve been published locally for twenty-six years, and I don’t get jobs from that. So, if I’m being published in the magazine, that’s ten times better than placing an ad, as far as provenance, if I’m not getting a telephone call from that.

The problem with architecture or at least the type of architecture that I do is that they are just custom residential architecture. People don’t look at an ad and say, “Hey, I want to buy a Prius.” “Honey, let’s get a Prius.” It doesn’t work that way.

When they decide they’re going to buy a piece of property, their dynamics are, “Okay, now I’m looking for an architect.” They may have seen my ad three years ago, and unless they ripped it out and stuck in a folder which actually happens sometimes, all you can do is hope that maybe you’re building branding. I know it sounds crazy, but it is word of mouth and it’s a combination of things, but nothing direct.

Enoch: Okay. No, absolutely. You mentioned when you’re thinking about the past, David, and going in to this midlife change right now and re-evaluation, you talked about some missed opportunities and networking. Can you give us some advice for architects who want to be able to network correctly? Give us some insights about what you’ve learned about networking.

David: Well, I have to give a shout out to Mark Hutker who’s an amazing architect in the Cape Cod area, in the islands area here in Massachusetts. He’s actually spoken at CRAN symposiums on his ability to market in the best sense.

Marketing is more than just saying “I’m going to go out, and send ads, and send bubble gum cards with my architecture on it so that people have it.” It’s really about understanding that from the time that the telephone call comes in, the people that you’re meeting, you’re recording their names, and you’re sending thank you, handwritten thank you notes, and you’re staying in contact with real estate agents that you’ve had brushes with.

Think of how many people that I’ve had brushes with in my first ten or fifteen years that. Well, you know, I was getting a big commission, and I’m sitting there, and there’s a real estate agent that sold it. There’s a real estate agent that bought it, and I’m sitting with my client, and I don’t remember those other two people’s names. Well, that was an opportunity to take their business cards and start to send them mailers because they know me. So, it starts coming off as unnatural.

So I think that that’s the part of business that I could learn more about. I’m starting to think that it’s not selling yourself; it’s just nurturing your existing relationships. One is staying in contact with my existing clients. I mean, duh, we started that about four years ago.

Four or five years ago we started our Facebook page. I don’t want to be bothering my clients. I set up the Facebook page and immediately my clients started joining. I started posting pictures of construction projects, ongoing, and clients are going, “Oh, my God. I love the project. Thank you so much.” Other clients are thanking me for their project they did in the past.

This dynamic, this is natural fraternity that’s occurring on Facebook and you’re building brand. I didn’t do that for the first fifteen years of my career. So, that’s sort of, the lessons that I’m thinking about for the next half of my career. I say it in a positive way. It’s not in a negative, sleazy way. I hope.

Enoch: Well, looking back in retrospect, that’s a great insight, David, about something that you’ve learned about business that you want to improve upon and do better in the future. Is there anything in the past that you think that may be some missed opportunities that you’re going to try to change?

David: No. I mean, we’ve made so many… Going back, each change that we’ve made over the years from learning, there are a lot of things…

One is the way that I treat employees. I mean, I originally viewed employees as, I’m talking about the first ten years, I viewed an employee as a temporary person like myself that was coming to basically learn the trade, and go to graduate school, and then they’re going to go off and start their own practice.

After about ten years of my practice I realized that was definitely not the way to view employees. I view them as family. From the time I’m hiring an employee, I’m thinking to myself, “Is this somebody that could be part of our family forever?” I know that’s an unfair question, but that is really how I view it.

That has changed my aspect of how I pay, and how our benefit packages were, and everything all the way down the line. Again, it goes back to team, team, team – a team in the construction process also with the contractor, landscape architect, designer, owner, and builder, then the team in the office.

Somebody early on, one of the employees, as I came up, ranting like, “What’s going on? We’ve got to get through this process.” They said, “If you were just upbeat and positive, it would be so much easier to solve this problem. There’s so much tension.”

So, you learn these lessons, you know, “Okay. I’m going to temper myself. We’re going to do this soft, and warm, and fuzzy.” Those are the lessons you learn.

Enoch: David, it’s been a great conversation today. Thank you for taking this leadership role for custom residential architects. I know that it’s something that not many people would do because I know it does take a lot of effort. I know you spent a lot of time as the CRAN Chair.

Give us a plug really quickly for the symposium. Tell us once again why architects should go to the CRAN symposium and what they’re going to discover there.

David: So, the CRAN symposium is done annually. We’re expecting about 225 people this year. It’s going to be two and a half to three days.

It’s going to include a walking tour of Charleston, which is, oh, my God, the most beautiful place to go in the world. It’s going to include a riding tour out to the islands to see the most beautiful architect design work in that area. Then, it’s going to include, I think, two day’s worth of conferences with some of the leading architects from all over the country, again, including Andres Duany and Robert A.M Stern just to mention two, but the line, it goes on from there.

Then, the most important thing, the thing that I enjoy most about it, and the most important thing for you is the ability to actually meet people and talk to your own brethren, your own fellow custom residential architects that do exactly what you do, but they do it a little differently than you do. You meet them during the day, in between courses, and you meet them when you go out to dinner. We have planned dinners at night, and you meet them at different tables of ten, and you talk to them, and the dynamics, the education that you get…

I have to tell you that when I first… I said earlier that I really wasn’t a big fan of the AIA when I started this process. My wife, Cheryl, she was involved in managing dental firms early on and she was always going to conferences. She was the one that said, “David, you need to go to the national AIA Conference.” I’m like, “How do you…” like, “There’s nothing residential there. I’m not…” She said, “You need to go. You need to go. You need to go.” I said, “Okay,” and so I went.

So, I did go, and as I mentioned earlier, there was very little information on residential architecture, no residential support. What I would do is I would take nine bad courses, but take two good ones. I’d make three or four relationships, let’s say, “You know what? This was really worth it.” It would give me this vibrancy, this excitement to push me through and say, “Wow. I’m elevated.”

Well, this is that on steroids because you’re basically sitting in a group of 200 residential architects that do exactly what you do and you’re not in competition with. You can sit down and tell stories from paying bills, to getting paid, to dealing with difficult clients. It’s an amazing experience.

So, if anybody is looking for anything for your learning credits, please consider going. Again, that’s on our AIA website www.AIA.org/CRAN. There’s a link there, but that link will be active for sign up in about a month. That will be September 18th to the 20th in Charleston South Carolina.

Enoch: Excellent. David Andreozzi is a custom residential architect based out of Rhode Island. He’s also the National Chair of the Custom Residential Architects Network, which is a knowledge community of the AIA.

Through his instrumentality, the CRAN network has produced a series of videos to help educate prospective clients about what architects do so that when they get to the point of wanting to hire you, they have a better understanding of the value you provide, and hopefully they’ll be turned in to a raving fan instead of skeptic.

David: Can I jump in to say one more thing before we go?

Enoch: Please.

David: Yes, I’m sorry to interrupt, but if people are interested in CRAN itself, getting involved either on a national level, on a subcommittee… We have many subcommittees. We have the actual, the AG (Advisory Group) itself, which you’re pulled on to, but we have many sub-communities. If you want to get involved, go to that site. First of all, join the site so you get your emails, but then reach out to us and just show us your interest.

The other thing we’re looking for very badly is we’re looking for emerging professionals. We started an emerging professionals group, and I believe we already have six or seven people there. We want to fill that out to fifteen. There’s also a link on the site there where you can sign up if you’re an emerging professional and you’re doing custom residential architecture.

I’m sorry I had to throw that plug in for all of CRAN.

Enoch: I’m glad you did. I would also be interested in getting some feedback, David. Let’s try to encourage some feedback from the people listening to day.

I want to hear from our listeners in the U.K. and in Australia. I want to hear about your professional organizations.

I want to hear, you know, is it the same for architects that are members of RIBA or the Australian Institute of Architects?

What kind of support did you get as a residential architect?

It would be interesting, David, as we focused on this mostly U.S.-based CRAN to hear some different experiences from architects in these other nations. Maybe there’s something that they can learn from what CRAN is doing, and likewise maybe there are some things that they are doing that we can learn from.

David: That’s a great idea. Excellent.

Enoch: So, please leave your feedback on the show page. Visit www.BusinessOfArchitecture.com.

David, once again, thank you for joining us.

David: Thank you again.

Enoch: Okay.
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